What is happening to good music?

people certainly would care about him even without the character he created as an outlet for his art. his bucket HINDERS his career. if he lost the bucket, and simplified his music, he could DOUBLE his fan base in a few weeks. he could become a rich, famous rock star with the snap of his fingers. but he doesn't want that; he makes beautiful music, bizarre complicated music, strange music, wonderful music, and that's all he cares about.

if it wasn't for his bucket and persona, he could be very wealthy, and very famous.

He's already famous.

not really. once guitar hero dies and another fad takes it's place, the people that only know about him because of jordan will forget him. he doesn't do big shows. he sells very small amounts of record.

if he wanted to, he could do anything. all he'd have to do is change the way he looks and acts, and make simple music for the masses, and he could conquer the charts, make platinum albums, and have millions of fans and girls begging to fuck his brains out. he's rather handsome and jacked, which makes his character and mask and clothing even better.

So? He may not be at the top of the charts, but he is famous. No, he's not as well known as some, but still.

well, just because he dresses and acts insane, and can play faster then anyone on earth, doesn't mean he's a gimmick... you probably haven't heard much of his music. he's considered by respectable, knowledgeable people to be a extraordinary musician... in 50 years, he will most likely be considered the combination of the best of lizst and bach.

hes not the fastest anyway =p

I don't LIKE his music. I respect his ability, I just don't like his music.

In the words of James Hetfield, "That's just not what music was to me".

I don't know if I'd say that's true. The Red Hot Chili Peppers are still a HUGE act and I think they're very talented and care about what they're doing to be called "true" musicians. Radiohead isn't quite as big, but they're still very popular. Beck too, along the same lines as Radiohead.

This reminds me of a cool little lyric in Weezer's new single:

"Everyone likes to dance to a happy song
with a catchy chorus and beat so they can sing along
Timbaland knows the way to reach the top of the charts
maybe if i work with him i can perfect the art."

I was kind of shocked at how similar that was to how I, personally, feel.

P.S. Thanks for the song, foogered. I don't think I like it as much as the Prototypes, but I really like to hear people singing in French :)

Maybe if I weren't force-fed all of this Disney pop crap, I could see things the way you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKUYSl8c-90&feature=related
do you like that?

The song is fine. I'm just not that into it.

dayum, i started a post on this like 3 months ago... :(

Kind of grew tired of typing my opinion on this topic when it became obvious that most of the people won't think on what's been said enough. But everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

i think that in like 2020 music is gonna be like all techno and computerized, and the jonas brothers and like justin bieber will be lost with all the crappy rap and stuff that doesnt even have a tune, and no one will really know who they are. but bands like Led Zeppelin

@LedZeppRox13, People say that with every generation. Think of the 70's a lot of mainstream was disco, music is music and that is what is so amazing about it.

In all honesty who cares if the Jonas Brothers, and Miley rule the charts? I'll happily put on my Buddy Guy, Lightnin Hopkins, Little Walter, Peter Green, name it. Everyone here has their flavor and thats what makes music awesome.

I had thought the blues was dying, than I found out about Joe Bonamassa, he's blown my mind the past few weeks.

Good music will never die, most of you aren't old enough to go to jazz/piano/dive bars or aren't in college yet. Once you get to that point all sorts of talent will show itself

I dont think time has anything to do with the quality of music theres always going to be great bands that blow you mind and give you goosebumps you just gotta search,and theres always gonna be lame crap out there and you cant stop it,you just have to let the lame **s live in that world and understand that real music never went away or got worse,but is getting better everyday

as time passes, music seems to be getting worse. I cannot turn on a radio without hearing bulls*it (lady gaga, justin beber, rap, hiphop, extremehardcoredeathcoremetal, dragonforce, and more)

Punk today is just f*gs with a guitar and mic whining
Metal today is overly distorted guitar with no real vocals (most of the time)
Pop today is a collection of people with only one song youl ever hear from them
What happened to bands like Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, old school Green Day/Blink 182/Metallica, Papa Roach?

Wow, that was a VERY ignorant comment.

You may not like it - but others do - and they like it for a reason.

It doesn't have to be what you consider good - THEY actually made it, while you're sitting on your computer complaining about them.

If you look deep enough into every genre, there is always good music. ALWAYS.

even if you absolutely hate it

To make things bit more ignorant, I might add that we came to the conclusion that we cannot choose what is good music and what's not, because different tastes of inviduals...

So it seem's that music is not getting worse, but audiences are getting worse, they listen "crap music", more those "crap taste" inviduals are, they buy more "crap music" and thats how the music business big boys are smiling wide... (how I know their taste is crap and mine not... Ofcourse my opinion is right, because... well its anyway right... ...)

Allright, seriously... music is not just music today, its entertainment, its IDOLS, its CHARACTERISTICS, its FASHION. Things like lady gaga forexample, what is it? music, yeah a bit... (there are somekind of rhythm there, there are some melody... crap or not, that is...) but more than that, what it is? Yeah, its sex dancing on the line of good taste... How it be so popular then, well lol... we know the answer, our minds are dirty.

If we look top10's how many sex oriented stuff you see there?... but anyway, mankind are survived for much serious issues than these, so lets just see where things are goin, maybe someone blows the fashions to next reality. You never know.

just my...2 c...(actually my boring time with my boring screen...)
Empirism

i second that! i can't tell you how many CDs i posess from unknown bands because i see them play at a dive bar and get into them and walk out the door. of course, most of the time i buy a CD it's because i've imbibed an incredile amount of beer and the music isn't as good as i remembered (or didn't remember) it being the night before!

also i was never really into "guitar rock". you know, i like rock music, and i enjoy hendrix, but i never listened to him at home. SRV, and other guitar greats... i never really paid attention... UNTIL i see cover bands play them well. and they rock it out. i live in a neighborhood with a lot of blues/jazz bars walking distance from my apartment. there is a bar called 1860s that has blues and jazz music 7 nights a week. that's how i got into a lot of this stuff now at a later point in life.



that's kind of funny to me that you whine about "punk music" and then proclaim that blink and papa roach are somehow good bands? i don't dislike blink-182, but they aren't a punk band. they are the closest thing to a punk band in recent years, but nowhere close to what i consider punk. true punk music has been hiding in the shadows for the last few years. the last good punk album i can think of off the top of my head is the distllers' "coral fang" which came out in...2000-2003? i think?

punk has more to do with attitude than musical style. blink uses a lot of power chords, fast hooks, and upbeat tempos but the music is too happy. both in lyrical content and the feeling it gives.

i also think it's funny that you guys are focusing on mainstream music. mainstream music is always inferior to the "good stuff" that is under the surface. yeah, justin bieber and lady gaga kind of suck. so don't go to their concerts. don't listen to the top-40 station. turn on XM-21 "alt. nation", go to a yeah yeah yeahs show, read alternative music publications (i like pitchfork).

if you only listen to mainstream music, you're only going to experience mainstream music...

gx is right, I've seen so many awesome covers of songs where a no-name band rocks the song then I go home and find out who actually performed it.

Great example was when i saw the Raconteurs play Rich Kid Blues, I had no idea that was a Terry Reid song, that led me to all sorts of stuff that he's done.

Pitchfork is awesome for many of the great modern bands, Flaming Lips, Radiohead, Wilco, My Morning Jacket, Band of Horses, Modest Mouse, they may not have a "guitar rock" sound but they still are awesome live (I can vouch for all these bands at least)

*edit* Another time I was in Asheville and got some free tickets to see The Secret Machines (great live band) and Kings of Leon (right after their first album). They had an opener, The Helio Sequence. They were this electronic-pop-rock group that did everything with 2 guys, it was amazing. Needless to say, I bought their album and a poster.

well although i respect and occasionally enjoy real "guitar rock" songs and bands, it's not my preferred music. a lot of the songs i listen to have a guitar part but it is not the main part. like for instance, hot chip. very much an electronic band (four guys with keyboards/drum machines and one with a guitar). but i like the guitar parts in their music. it's just simple rhythms and solos. nothing mind shattering like a hendrix jam.

so yeah i agree that the pitchfork scene isn't mostly "guitar rock" but the reason i read it (the news, not the reviews) is becasue the music as a whole is really good, and most of it is not mainstream.

for instance, i consider kings of leon a "poor man's" band of horses. band of horses is the same style of music, kind of a blue collar soaring power rock, as kings of leon, but i think horses do it so much better. and yet, very few people know who band of horses are.

I'm bringing this one back again 'cause I made a loser facebook page about it :D

I would like you guys to join so noobs can hear real musicians discuss the matter :D

Music Is On The Verge Of Dying

i dont have a facebook anymore but i logged onto my friends to see it and that picture is beautful. did you draw it? hate to take the conversation from music...

i think the worst is the quality of lyrics and new beats. beautiful music made by artists like elton john, john lennon, george harrison, james taylor, csn etc etc etc seems to be gone, and their "soft rock" seems to have transfered to bands like...? 5 for fighting may be one. its still good but its not fantastic you know, i feel like its changed but the similar styles and comparisons seem to be getting worse in my opinion,

i really cant compare pop nowadays because its all mtv crap and thats just not fair

but soft rock now vs soft rock then (idk bands now but before i mentioned b4)

hard rock vs hard rock then (i mean bands like the answer now compared to led zep, not like kings of leon)

rock now (kings of leon...i guess?) vs rock then (pink floyd, skynyrd)

even underground music is worse you know

like galactic which is a funky band now cant compare to bands like the meters or funkadelic...

bands like phish compared to the grateful dead. im not saying music now is terrible ( i LOVE phish, string cheese etc) but i feel like its getting worse, the comparable bands from now to then, seem to be worse, i dont just mean mainstream mtv crap. i think the reason there was less of that then was because of no mtv, no disney, no big corps training kids to sell out as fast and as much as they possibly can before they go away (hannah montana in 10 years... psh ill see her at a 7/11.) so i dont think its fair to compare pop now to then.

one could also argue that its very opinionated and that for some is the best music...(i guess some people really like screaming death metal the best?)

but in musically speaking i cant fathom how anyone can say that screaming **** or anything else now is better musically speaking then, then. i mean sure that death stuff is incredibly hard to play (once you take a week or 2 to learn sweeping and get it solid and having tons of gain to chuggg) but musically speaking i dont think anything now compares:

im gona need phip for this one but phip take the most (or one of) the top songs now (thats not disney, no hannah montana, i assume the top will be lady gaga because thats all i hear now) and take a top song say 35 or 40 years ago and compare them.

lets say even radiohead which ive heard is the pink floyd of today, firstly i dont know how anyone can say that, compare anything by pink floyd to anything by radiohead, musically pink floyd blows them away. shine on you crazy diamond, echoes, great gig in the sky, all their albums are fantastic...

i also compare lady gaga and her techno pop to disco, a passing fad, awesome to poorly dance to but a passing fad that wont too much be remembered by anyone in 10 years except those who loved it...

People want to be like the greats (which is fine) but they lose their originality because of it... they're trying so hard to be like someone else that music isn't new anymore.

Then again, there are plenty of musicians who get away from this (people like Andy McKee)

The music I make I try to make it as original as possible, I obviously have inspiration and that is going to be heard in my playing but I also have a strong desire to play nothing but my own stuff without the help of others - just like they did. Why does that desire need to fade just because there's soooo much music now?

I don't think music today is bad, in fact, there's a lotta great music out there. It's what we're exposed to on the radio and tv that's bad. Marketting a pop star or band nowadays is a lot more refined to hit targeted paying audiences more now than ever. Bands of yesteryear like Led Zeppelin, Yes or Genesis for example would be successful in today's market, but they wouldn't be nearly the powerhouses that they were in the 60s and 70s. Conversely, the Jonas Bros or the like wouldn't have made it at all back then.

The great thing about today is the Internet. There is a plethora of music for your perusal at your finger tips! You can listen and NOT buy! You can buy a whole cd or just one song just sitting on your couch. I didn't have that choice when I was a kid. Also, albums and high fidelity equipment were a lot more expensive in those days.

I also think we are so spoiled today with all that we have, especially in the area of technology, that it makes it a lot easier to complain about what's bad instead of sharing with each the things that are good.

Well, that's my two cents!

JazzMaveric says it best. That all art is niether good nor bad. Humans make that judgement.

Yep except modern art! one day stuck my spoon in a really frozen ice-cream box thingy and the spoon bent...two days later it was in a modern art museum :)

I think it's just that it's new. I've been conjuring this thought for a while now. I'll take for example the Black Rain album form Ozzy. It came out in '07 and at the time it was "eh" to me. Now, three years later, I love it. What I'm saying is that music ages like wine, and only gets better. Like, way back when you probably had the kids who liked Black Sabbath and called all the Led Zep fans puss!es. It's the same way we have people listening to Slipknot calling those who listen Muse or something names. It's always the same attitude, and I think that in 20 years, some of today's bands will be looked at in the same way we look at Zeppelin, Sabbath, Guns N' Roses, Nirvana, etc.

Ozz

Buckethead is one of (probably the) finest musicians on the planet. He can shred like a robot, and show more emotion than Soul. He can play just about EVERYTHING there is to play on the guitar. He probably wears a Bucket and a Mask to continue his peaceful life, without the press on him. He is brilliant.

dont know how that contributes to whats happening with good music... also disagree with you there.

It's simple really. The more commercial music now is lacking quality relative to times past. But that doesn't mean that the music nowdays in general is lacking, that is just flat out false. Broaden your horizons and you will find loads of good music. Check out bands that aren't main stream. JustJeff posted a video of a band called The Reign of Kindo a while back. I gave them a listen and then went and bought both of their albums, because they are very good. Killswitch Engage is a very good band as well. Going in other directions, I started listening to some Infected Mushroom, which is not normally my cup of tea, but I heard a cover AlexB did and was blown away. And of course, check out Minus the Bear. They are amazing musicians that put forth great music and continue to branch in new directions with each album. I told gx to check them out, now he loves them. You just gotta open up your ears, be open to different types of music, and then you can appreciate the quality music that is being made these days.

I don’t think anything, philosophically speaking, is bad or good. It either is or it isn’t. Bad or good is just a way of communicating to others our opinion about something. Popularity and sales are two of the things that are pushed on us by major media types that encourage large groups of us think something is good and even sometimes bad. They just want us to look or listen and ultimately buy!

So, in my opinion, Paris Hilton is a bad musician (I tried to think of the most extreme example to make my point). Yes, she actually recorded a CD. It is absolutely horrible, again, in my opinion. However, on Amazon her CD gets 3 out of 5 stars! That’s not bad! If you actually listen to it there are some catchy songs and it’s produced well. But, who is Paris Hilton? What has she really done to contribute to music all on her own? This CD is obliviously produced all around her but with Paris as the center marketing piece. Kids see her popularity and success and want to be like her and validate their own existence by buying this CD.

Don’t get me wrong. It’s not like this is new. This sort of thing has been happening since the beginning of the commercialization of music. Records were first produced in the 40’s and 50’s and companies saw the value of producing an act and marketing it to its fullest potential. It’s just getting worse with every new decade.

Now if your opinion is that Paris Hilton, and all that she represents, is a good musician that makes good quality heartfelt original music then God Bless ya! I write a lot about this because as a musician that puts a lot of effort into learning and producing my own music I think it is important to distinguish between what deserves good credit where credit is due and what doesn’t. I want my kids and all young people to understand this. For the most part I think most of the young people that belong to this forum do.

Sorry, I was just replying to TheAmericanBrit and Baudelaire's argument at the top ;D

This is an age old argument which will forever answer itself. Too bad most people don't see it that way.

Take a second and really think what you guys are discussing. I think the very fact that you are even talking about this proves that there is a certain, undeniable quality in today's music. If the music is causing so many thought provoking arguments and discussions, then it is doing exactly what any good music does to your brain. It makes you think and you can't stop, even if you try.

Here is my post from Jazz's Facebook group:

Personal opinion: Music is not even close to dying. Commercial industry has made it extremely easy for any musician, practically anwhere, to write, record, produce and sell their own music. I am going to go out on a limb and say that compared to the "classic days", the industry today is a monster incapable of defeat.

The sheer number of different genres introduced by today's artists trumps any other era by a long shot. There is a genre and musician for anything and everything a person could possibly desire, within realistic standards. People today have become much more experimental with music and sound. Isn't that what music is about? Freedom of expression?

"One mans trash is another mans treasure". I think that phrase is appropriate for today's music as well. If all music were an accurate expression of someone's soul, then there would be no bad music. The only "bad" music today is music written not from the heart or from the brain, but rather from the deep pockets of a multi-billionare.

Music has no limits. Every sound from your own footsteps to birds chirping to the wind the rustling dead leaves, qualifies as music.

-"An art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color."

-"The tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both."

In short, music today is perhaps "better" than it ever was. With all the diversity and willing participants, the world of music has never been so vibrant and powerful.




This, for the most part, is very true.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with anyone's music. I think the problem is that a lot of people (not just "today's kids", but the music listening population as a whole) are ignorant (in the most respectful sense of the word) and naive. If one were to respect any bit of music for exactly what it is, an expressive component of someones mind, there would be less bias against any particular genre or era of music.

A friend of mine once quoted, "There are only two types of music, good music and bad music". I suppose on an extremely personal level, this is can be true. If music moves you, you consider it good, if not, then it must be bad. However, keeping selfishness aside, music is not solely for you the individual listener. That, I think, is something that most people cannot understand. Thus comes, the purpose of an opinion. So individual people can impart their feelings on others about how they feel, as individuals. But music is not for one person.



I just got interrupted and lost my train of thought. I might post again when I get it back. Until then...


«Rock on!»

So then you agree with me? Because that's my whole point and it's getting worse. Where this is most apparent, at least for me, is the radio. I listened almost exclusively to the radio when I was a kid. The music I heard was NEW music by Yes, Genesis, Led Zeppelin, Kiss, Judas Priest, George Benson, Black Sabbath, Kansas, Tom Petty, Fleetwood Mac, Ohio Players, Earth Wind and Fire, on and on and on. I don’t hear anything close to this on the radio today. If I do, it’s on classic radio stations that play the bands I just mentioned.

Again, as I mentioned before, I do have the internet and Sirius Radio where I can hear a lot of cool new stuff but not like it was. Yes, you youngans will be saying this too in 20 to 30 years and you will be right!

Yes, I do. I think your previous post was well stated truth.

«Rock on!»

The thing is, you ask a band (rock, metal, jazz and others) why they like being a band, they say "I love the touring and our amazing fans" and other things like that, and then you ask the multi-millionaires like Britney Spears and the will say "................... (How much do I get paid for miming at concerts again?)." They just care about their money, their clothes, the fame and "how many magazines am I in this week?"