How do you practice on speed?

Well, I've been working a lot on speed lately, because I kind of growed into playing metal. Of course speed isn't everything but i think it's a nice tool to have in your weaponery of techniques, haha. So I wanted to ask you how you practice playing fast?
Of course I have read a lot of literature on it, but I just want to get some of your opinions and maybe some new ideas which i could try out.
Until now I have been practicing it with a book called "guitar fitness" and it basically contains different patterns (mostly chromatics) on the guitar. Besides that i started an excelsheet where I note my progress and BPM rates. Furthermore I break down fast solos and play them with slower BPM rates with the metronome and try to gain a few beats each week.
So please post your ideas on speed, as well as techniques (e.g. relaxing your hand, keeping your fingers as close to the fretboard as possible) I would be really grateful for any advice!

This MAY sound counter-intuitive b u t ...

To gain speed , slow down, way down (from your Norm)
Concentrate on the feel of the pick on the (correct) string(s)
let the 3 basic single-string (WW-HW-WH) left hand moves become unthinking muscle memory ... THEN add the next 3 basic single-string (min3rd-min2nd, min2nd-min3rd, min2nd-min2nd)left hand moves become unthinking muscle memory as well.
"run" ALL these figures in 'self-same groups'
IE: W-W down a position and back up (or up/back),
Then combine these into patterns (this is how we play scales/modes anyways so why-TF not, eh?) and 'run' them from a static position (read: from same fret)
Gradually increase your speed from 1/4-not triplets at 40bpm to 80bpm to 120, 160, and so forth.
BUT
After completing a 'speed drill', quickly GO BACK to the 'slow-drills' and check the:
Attitude of the pick
The position of each fretted notes finger to the fret
(in other words look to perfection)
Then speed up again.

No-One , lol, ever believes this works (my "speedy" students) until they discover that while they can play a 16th-note-triplet lick at 180bpm they 'fall to pieces' when trying to play the same lick while remaining ON BEAT at 40-Bpm: this small piece of self-torture makes them 'converts' , lol, and happier (+ 'faster') students.

Trust me on this one, I've used the method for over 30 years and it STILL 'messes me up' and improves my accuracy/speed.

(and it DOES sound like you’ve been exploring a similar approach *-)

I'll add one more carrot here, as 'IT' is often sadly overlooked:
Playing 'fast' (a very relative term), as you have intoned above does not mean playing well. (Kudos, Admiral!)
And to this end i offer the following advice (again, this is another "been doing it for 30+ years" exercise) :
Play a (3-note per) Major scale.
No biggy.
Ya do it all the time.
NOW
Lets say you are in 3rd position (3rd fret, stay there) and you sail through Ionian (Maj)
Move to the 5th (A) string (all in 3rd or whatever position you start on) .. You’ll likely sail through it as well
Now its time to move and use the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and yes, 1st strings and play from there; this is harder than you think because you will have to re-train yourself to the sound of the mode rather than its “pattern”
Do This with ALL (your) known scales/modes. It will pay off in spades! No kiddin’!

But are we through … ha-ha?
NO
Now, realizing that the human brain dislikes ‘like-tonal-movement’ beyond 5 notes, realize that each scale is ‘played-out”(kinda)(for this exercise) and take the knowledge gained running ALL modes from 1 position (all in 3rd position ..Etc) and use it to COMBINE these modal runs.
IE: Say you are in G (3rd) on the 6th string playing Aeolian (Natural Minor)---
Play the 1 2 b3 4 5 b6(basically two moves of W-H) and remember that the b7 will land your finger on the 4th string. At this point decide if you wish to state (or infer ...More on that inna later post lol) the b7 or move to a NEW MODE beginning on the 4th string, Phrygian, for example beginning on Aeolians ROOT via fret 5-string 4. Play this out until the next 6 or 7 comes around and repeate this procedure! You can mix/match to your hearts content, like , er, uh, Aeolian into Phygian, back to Aeolian IE:
(starting in 3rd(G)) Aeolian -> Phrygian-> Aeolian will land you on Aeolians 4th (C) on the 1st string (8th fret) and allow for further movement and larger note-span.

TRY to do this without any aid other than a Metronome, use non-drill time to nail the modes (beginning on ANY string) .

All in all it sound (as I said above) like you are on the right track, Bro, keep the learning up! ;~)

RAWK!
Cs

PS:
Practicing (at least) 4-Hours a day never hurts….

Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

Honestly, the best way to get fast, is just to play. There are no secrets to increase your speed. Of course everyone has their own practice runs and pieces they like to do to warm up. Personally, I think that the chromatic scale is not only the most important scale to learn and understand, but it is also the fastest way to getting fast.

Being relaxed is also a large part of playing fast for longer periods. If your muscles are tensed you just wont be able to keep up. It sounds tough and when you get to really fast speeds with your fretting hand or with your picking hand it is tough to stay relaxed. Here's a few tips to help out:
1) Stay hydrated, maybe it's just the army in me, but it really helps. So drink plenty of water.
2) Stretch the muscles in your forearms, wrists, hands and fingers.
3) Always warm up with slow easy licks before attempting to play fast.
4) Shake your hands before playing to help loosen them up and increase blood flow.
5) Keep your hands warm!

Try playing this, but start slow!

e:-----------------------------------1-2-3-4-1---------------------2-4

B:----------------------------2-3-4-5---------2-----------------1-3---

G:---------------------2-3-4-5-----------------3-------------2-4------

D:--------------3-4-5-6-------------------------4-3-------1-3---------

A:-------4-5-6-7-----------------------------------2---2-4------------

E:5-6-7-8-------------------------------------------1-3---------------

Also, check out my lesson: FINGER WORKOUTS!!.

Hope this helps you out.

Rock on!

Well, thanks a lot guys for your replies in first place. Carl you overwhelmed me with the length of your post! must have taken you ages!

@carl
so is your technique to work with a metronome to start really slow, kinda perfecting the technique, slowly increasing the speed until you reach the top speed and then coming back to the slow speed to watch the movements again?
thats how i kinda got it from your post? Or how else do you approach practicing with a metronome?

i really liked the idea as well to combine it with the different scale patterns starting on different strings! This should get my improvising to a next level. i do sometimes feeling to much stuck in patterns. I also liked your idea about starting scales and workouts with an upstroke (that was in another topic) I tried that during the last few days and it did help me to think outside the box.

@guitarslinger
i checked out your fingerworkout lesson, its really good. I do these workouts for a while now, but i kinda reached a lvl where i don't feel like improving much more with these workouts anyomore, that was also a reason why I started the topic. Has anyone made any experiences with that? And how did you overcome such barriers?

Did you reach your level of speed mostly by practicing such workouts guitarslinger?



I have to kinda disagree with that. I have been wasting so much time on not doing my practicing in an efficient way. Especially fingerworkouts do IMO tend to let your brain switch off and not exactly watch your movements.

And also I heard from Tom Hess in an interview that he said:"It's ok to play sloppy at some points" of course he explained it furthermore to not be misinterpreted, but his point was that if you are practicing speed you should always push yourself to get your brain used to the faster movements. However, I heard from a lot of other sources that you should only put up the metronome to a level where you can nearly play it flawlessly. What is your guys opinion on that one?

Thanks again for the 2 posts CS and GS!

wow. i just did i nice long detailed post.... and it didnt work... WOW.

basically you NEED A METRONOME! NEED. GET IT. NOW. PERIOD.

better yet a jamm machine. they have metronomes in them and are great.

practice finger stretching too.

e--------------------------------1-3-5- and back down 5-3-1 and so on

b--------------------------1-3-5-

g--------------------1-3-5-

d--------------1-3-5-

a--------1-3-5

e--1-3-5

e--

b--

g--

d--

a--------1-3-5-3-1-

e--1-3-5-----------5-3-1 and repeat. 

ALWAYS PRACTICE WITH A METRONOME!!!! and work on phrasing. you see a lot of players who run before they can walk (play fast, terrible phrasing and sloppy with no technique.)

remember the less movements the better, try to keep it simple and small movements. relax your hand it shouldnt be tense...

and im not sure if i said this yet but...

PRACTICE WITH A METRONOME!!!! oh wait i did... :)

I practice sober.

i think what he means to say is irf you practice the right things youll get better. certainly dont practice the wrong things...

i think we all could help you a lot... if you post a video of your playing, fast and slow.

oh and also you get better by going outside your comfort zone. practice things you cant get 100% and your not comfortable doing... (just turn down the volume! :)

ehh every once in a while... :)

Hehe, yeh, a metronome has been my best friend for the last couple of weeks ^^, but for this month i kinda got stuck, i feel like having reached a barrier even though i know its by far not the top.

How do you practice with a metronome EMB? I mean, what is your method? just the usual slowly speeding up bit by bit or do you have any other patterns or habits you use when playing with a metronome?

You can start making your own finger workouts. Create difficult patterns and practice them. I stopped playing the workouts in my lesson ages ago. What I like to do now, is pick a key and play all the modes as fast as I can. I also like to play chromatic and, what I call, inter-modal runs to warm up my fingers. Sometimes, I take an easy pentatonic riff or lick and play it slowly at first, then speed up until I can no longer play it cleanly. Also, I'll play single, double, triple or quadruple note legato runs each string. Once my fretting hand is warmed up, I'll add in tapped fifth and sixth notes with my picking hand.

I know it sounds cliche`, but you really have to find what works for you. Just my opinion. Some guitarists have an easier time playing things that other guitar players have a hard time playing. For example, I have trouble with ascending sweeping licks that cover more than four strings, but a buddy of mine can play licks like that with ease. However, at the same time, I can play legato runs twice as fast as him. So you really just gotta find your weak spots and focus on improving in those areas.

Rock on!

Better yet, go to Jam Center and play along with the jam machines on the site. It is totally free. I personally hate using a metronome, because they are f***ing boring. I'd prefer a drum track. Jamming over a jam track is awesome practice too, so add it to the list.

Rock on!

drum track metronome even a backing track just somthing to keep time.

personally i find the sweet spot i increase the clicks and get to a point where i can play it basically right then lower it by 10 beats per minute and play from there when i feel comfortable ill raise it by 5 or 10 and then find my point where i cant play it and go 10 beats below that and practice there. its pretty helpful the first half is to warm up.

personally i dont go for speed rather then writing solos im a very pink floyd grateful dead jam style player i like slower more melodic solos so i go for phrasing and feel but i play for at least an hour a day just jamming to my jam man. best practice for me. and of course if theres a lick i cant do i take it apart and work on it. however i sprained my finger pretty badly so im not really working out licks because my finger holds me back... but i still play...even though i shouldnt and let it heal :)

personally id get a jamman really helps your improvising too which is totally necesary live and to jam with people and bands. especially if your looking to join a band. ive gone to a bunch of rehearsals... we dont just go hey lets jam mr.crowley! haha its a very worked out solo which i wouldnt in my life change instead i give a very open workable soloable track like lets say rock n roll' by led zep, simple 12 bar blues. very nice to solo over and to work your phrasing

oh another + for the jam machine if your working changes with phrasing over chords you can slow down the progression!

yeah, a jam machine is a good thing for improvising. I always make my own backing tracks atm, record them and jam over them. But I'll probably stick to the metronome for practicing just on speed!

Thanks guys for the good posts. There are really a lot of good posts in this thread! Some interesting new ideas for me to take.

if you don't have a jam machine you can always just pick over a song

i'm working offline on answering these in depth , but have had heating/air guys, etc-etc distracting me most of the day.
I'm hoping to answer Tomorrow or Thur at latest. (keep in mind this old guy types s l o w LOL)

RAWK!
Cs

Yes :) … this way the tonal integrity, right/left hand movements, can be looked at from the vantage points of ‘economy of motion’ and ‘sureness of tonality(via finger placement)’ .
I t also speaks to your state of ‘muscle-memory’ and later to a deeper and unthinking sense of ‘tonal memory …IE: you learn how the note sounds prior to striking the string/fret that sounds it’


Well, I’m in an odd position there; being a teacher, I use a slow Gnome when teaching scales/modes to my students (lol) so the basic-basics get more than covered on a work day, but I still run (as in earlier post) those patterns and scales as well as combining two or three scales during a low-high / high-low modal run. This works wonders for fretboard management as you begin to envision the start stop points and notes of the run you begin, making what starts as a ‘norm’ like Lydian-Dom move to Mixolydian to Lydian-Aug, or a simple Minor such as Harmonic(I) to Dorian To Aeolian etc-etc
From there on out you are only your imagination, and if you wish , lol, the melody line stated in a tune.
BUT practicing alone you can find your way through “uncharted territories” with no pressure of harmony that you yourself to do not impose :)

Another great tool the Gnome provides is the clean changing of chordal progressions. Any monkey can play a 1+5 , so obviously that is not the intent, rather try moving from Dims to ½-Dims to Maj-7 to add9 etc-etc ANY ‘new to you” or “hard” cords can be unleashed in this way , it just takes (no pun intended) time.

I also string –skip a lot in patterns; say you’re playing a high octave (I’ll use C on the high e string) I’ll will: upstroke the C then move that lower-C on the 3rd string/5th fret to the E on the 2nd string (all same fret) and play -> up-c/down-E, upC/downC , upC/downG, upC/downD, upC/downA … then reverse the order returning to the beginning. I do this with all basic 8 fretted octaves.
I will also palm mute all strings lightly with my left hand (need to feel the string action) and skip stings in (open) forms like E-D, A-G, etc
ALL in time with the Gnome

Its usually at this point when I go back to the modal runs and/or chordal stuff.

There are a lot more, of course, but those are my mainstays.




Stuck in pattern is often due to those “positional’ (not three per string) scales. I’m not saying they are useless, quite the contrary, but they do hamper your upward movement drastically. I practice them, teach them, know them, but only once in a blue moon do I find myself looking at the fretboard that way (*cool fact: “pattern/Positional” scales were made for classical guitarists so that they would not need to look at the fretboard; this was the ‘accepted’ way of teaching scales up until the late 70’s….wild huh?)
But knowing them is a must imo – and they DO have ONE hidden charm you can use with the Gnome: they are irregular! They do not always move in 3-per-string patterns and so offer you the opportunity to do your speed drills in an uncomfortable (uncomfortable = good for speed) way due to the fact that your timing will be broken via a 2-note string in the midst of 3-pers!

Keep thinking outta the box Bro!

I hope this helped you a bit.
And…

RAWK!
Cs

Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

yeah i had a teacher who taught me patterns not necesarily bad i just with that he had connected everything and done it differently, dont depend on patterns, try to know the chords and solo over them and you figure out the patterns just from that

i think ya, basically reinforced my last point there bro, but from a chordal view. to me scales and chords are "one" i honestly dont separate them much, consciously anymore but knowing ALL the chords that lay beneath these scale IS a very important fact. thanks for the reminder!

RAWK!
Cs

Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

One of the things I didnt see in the previous post (i didnt read all of them!) was picking technique: Alternate, Strict alternate, and economy. If you are not paying attention to what your right hand is doing you will miss notes no matter what you read above. Al DiMeola and Steve Morse are strict alternate pickers. Frank Gambale is a sweep or economy picker. Actually, all of these guys could do it all but they are known for their main particular style of picking.

I could explain more but read more about about picking techniques on the internet.

i kinda covered them w/out naming them as they are usually (no-pick-prac) inherent to the movement of the run...

but yeah, a bit more focus there is warrented , lol, you wanna writre the next ger-zillion-worder of shall i ?
*-)

RAWK!
Cs

PS: whatta ya think about a picking , just picking post, bro?




Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.

@carlsnow

I would love a "just picking" post. I'm definetely not an expert on picking though! I only know what I know because I have trouble relearning how to pick runs that I have practiced the wrong way for years! I struggle with it a lot. I economy pick three note per string runs pretty good going up and down but I can't do the Al Di Meola, Vinnie More, Steve Morse thing! I would love to be able to climb up and down a single string at blistering speeds but I just cant seem to do it!

well in practicing id strictly practice alternate picking. but when playing live or with a band id do economy, more efficiant...

?? what is that? sorry, I didn't quite get that.


Yes, thanks for that tip! I think its a much too overlooked technique, which really squares youre accuracy when it gets to hitting different strings in different distances!


It very much did! Thanks for all of your replies guys! I got some really good ideas now.

in a lesson with shawn lane, he says you should try to play as FAST as you can, even if it sounds sloppy. that seems to counter act what other people said

whoever shawn lane is im going to come out and say hes completly and totally wrong. all that will do is inforce improper techinques and increase sloppy playing... were you joking? thats the exact opposite what you want to do. id try to find a point where you can play it but maybe make a few mistakes and decrease the tempo down 10 or so from that where your comfortable and work your way up. trying to go as fast as you can make 0 sense and would be counter productive. seems like a very kidlike thing to do. all that does in inforce sloppy playing, poor technique and bad feel. DONT do that.

Well, but you defo got to push yourself to set new standards. Always only playing at a comfortable speed won't make you be able to play faster. You have to push yourself even if it does get a little bit sloppy at some points. I've heard it a lot of times and out of my own experience (as i recently have experimented a lot with this topic) i can say it is true as well. Of course you have to be accurate, and i also don't believe you should try to play as fast as possible without any regards to accuracy. But you do have to push yourself. I doubt that Paul Gilbert, Vinnie Moore etc learned how to play fast through playing slow - just a thought

disagree. i already said why...

Check out my Shawn Lane post so you can hear a couple examples. You really need to check this guy, he died in 2003 I think. One of the greatest guitar players to have ever lived. Well, one of the greatest shred guitarists to ever live. Not many could play even half as fast as he. Not only could he play obscenely fast, but he played melodically as well, and he played whatever the hell he wanted. You really need to read up on this guy, he will rock your world. I haven't heard him ever say, "you should play fast, even if you play sloppy", but if he said it, I would give it a try.

Sorry to interrupt with my off topic remark, but Shawn Lane is a must know guitar player.

Rock on!

Also, Admiral has a solid point. You do need to push yourself if you want to play faster. It doesn't just happen. On a second thought, I do agree that you should play fast even if it is sloppy, in a practice scenario.

When I first started learning multi-string tapping and sliding my tapped notes, I couldn't play them cleanly. But I continued to play the same licks over and over, sloppily, until... BAM! I could play them cleanly. If you think about it, whenever you are learning something new, you can't play it 100% correctly are clean... That is, of course, assuming you are not a child prodigy.

Just my two cents...So respectfully, disagree with you EMB.

Rock on!

you should always push yourself out of the comfort zone but id never just go as fast as i can nothing i can learn from that really, and i really would have no use for it. just my opinion... sure we all play sloppy until we clean it up... but purposely playing fast and sloppy i dont believe will help. however going out of the comfort zone inproves you a lot.

It's not so much just playing fast. It is playing fast with intent. Also, theory does not equal speed and speed does not equal theory. However, speed and technical finesse allow you to play all that stuff that theory teaches you.

My opinion, for what it's worth: Technical finesse is slightly more important than knowing any theory. How can practice the things you've learned if you can't even play your instrument? Look at guys like Dimebag Darrell, Kirk Hammett and Dave Mustaine. None of them knew/know much theory, but they are/were all proficient guitarists. I'm not saying it isn't important to learn theory, by all means, I think it is extremely important to learn theory.

I think, as a beginner or beginner intermediate player, technical finesse on your instrument is most important. Sure it is good to learn scales to practice, but it is most important to learn how to play when you are beginning guitar. Once you are somewhat proficient, then learn theory more in depth.

Let there be no limits set on yourself for either the technical nor the knowledge aspects of music. It is a life long learning experience and there is always room for improvement; or at the very least, room for change.

Rock on!

These are all good posts, especially your's GS, the part about Dimebag, Hammett, and Mustaine was VERY true, but honestly, it's all just WAYS. You can get good, but very few people ever get good the EXACT same way someone else did. What works for one person may not work for someone else, despite the two people having nearly the same result. At least in music anyway.

My thoughts on the matter,

Ozz

I think Ozzfan486 summed it up. I'm gonna be 47 this year and have been playing since I'm 13. I'm not as good as I think I should be but overall I'm happy with my playing. I've tried some things and they work and others and they just dont. The more you play however the better you will get.

I think practicing speed doesn't make sence. It comes with practice. Its analoagous to learning how to be advanced at something without knowledge of the details. Or am I wrong?

you're not wrong nullnaught, of course you get faster by playing for a while, but take for example playing soccer:
of course my shooting skill will get better by playing soccer with some friends but then on the other hand you can specifically focus on it and improve faster.