Any blues tips anyone?

trying to get better at the blues!

definitely learn some songs by the great blues writers. It will help you get the feel for the blues style and that is really all it is. a feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA2auxH5Ahk

for those who want to learn the blues... ;)

Well, I learned the Blues scale, and I could jam pretty well, like I know where my notes are within 4 frets of where I started the scale, but it all gets kind of fuzzy from there. Can someone send me a link to the full blues scale, in Cmaj?

Kero, if I have right hunch, you are there where Ive been some time ago. To found the answer your question is not to "memorize" the whole scale and all the notes everywhere on fretboard...especially in any possible triads or key...

You should start think scales as a boxes and especially the SHAPES. You could start to check my lesson that I wrote to myself actually, to trying to understand the whole thing... its called caged system.

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/lesson.php?id=159

when you realize things on caged system, you should start to think modes and in no time you realize how you apply them any key you want to.

also you can use this site tool guitar scales up there, to backup and visualize your studies.

-Emp

i'll definitely check it out! thanks man! (-:

I can give you some recomedations based on my experiance trying to learn the blues.

Stuff to look into....

Check out the blues you can use series of books by John Ganapes. It's really pretty solid structure for leaning the blues and lead guitar in general. Each chapter has a lesson, some theory and a blues solo you learn along the way. I can't recommend this book enough.

I also purchased the blues blue print from guitarlessons.com and was a pretty solid system especially if you like video type lessons and not so much reading and tab. There are not any predefined solos but you learn licks, chords and in the end you build up your own solo based on the licks you learned.

Listen...

To learn the blues you have to listen to the blues. Listen to John lee hooker, B.B. King, Albert King, Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, SRV etc etc.

Play....

Find some friends who are willing to back you up, just having drums and bass works fine and jam and play. If your short on musically talented friends there are tons of backing tracks available too.




I'm not on all that much anymore but PM me or find my email address

yea man! I jam with friends once a week! It's pretty sick!

Well, play the whole blues through only using dominant 7 chords are called using "bluessevenths" and is traditional. 9 chords are also common and get a jazzier tone into the blues.
You also need to know, at least, one good turnaround.
You can find lot of information on blueslesson.net
Keep up the blues, kero !!!

Thank you @pxm is blueslesson.net free?

Parts of it..

I went on it, it's pretty cool aha

When soloing, practice playing your notes within the beat and not on the beat.

like hammer on pull offs in between the tempo?

Great Tip!
I repeat, great Tip...try that;
...NOT simply while playing a 'lead' but while strumming, riffing, etc>>>AKA: All the time.
(most great blues tunes don't contain what many think of as a 'solo'. ^that seeming blanket-statement is one SERIOUSLY-elastic fact that would need another post, and fer once, (students soon) I'll NOT (LOL) write a 3 pager on the subject

1st
There is NO such thing as a Blues scale or "mode" - etc that is 'Blue'
there is no one particular scale/Tri/ - etc that is 'Blue'
2nd
May sound odd but blues are best laid down without thought. move your ear-mind away from static scale/"mode"/pattern-related playing.
because..
3rd
you will want to rely on, and BUILD, a nice, growing, practical 'working knowledge', of the notes (sound) on yer Plank.
IE:
Learn the fretboard by sound rather than vision.
One easy way to build your feel and knowledge of "i know what it SOUNDS like when i play the 6 in an A-scale.
great way to practice this =
starting at fret 1 play all whole steps up the E string as IT where a Maj scale
frets : 1-3 -3-5 -5-7 -6-8 (wholes) as you hum/sing the note values in 1-2's up the neck (move back to 2nd fret and repeat); the 1st '1' is hardest for beginning but after this BY playing that 2nd you KNOW yer new '1' and so on up the neck
Stick w/ whole steps fer a mo or so then move to 1/2 steps (same way) then -3rds and 3rds..
Ultimately (i aint sayin' this wont take e few or more years, lol) you will be able to SING each note on the fretboard BEFORE ya play it.

the blues (my passion so i wont get to into it THIS post) requires that you 'make the guitar sing" almost literally, as in the Delta tradition (and onwards) the higher notes/voicings TALK (or lol argue/plead)to the lower notes...

'box play' is also quite a useful practice think of A-Maj 'BOX' being the whole steps (all strings) from fret 2 (F#- = Rel-Min) to the 9th fret. Run simplistic whole-steps moving around and withing these frets, you will begin to "feel out" that territory in yer head l; and as an added bonus , playing maj-2nds will , like the exercise above begin to 'print' the notes therein in yer head.

The more you learn and explore from this and abandon patterned(Scale-ish/"modal" etc) play the more your ears will teach your fingers. Yes, it is an ongoing process (40+ yrs and counting here lol) and yes it requires a great deal of patience
BUT the payoff is Big. REALLY BIG.

Then as you play a blues, concentrate on the TUNE rather that yer playing, Dig? That guitar is meant to 'serve the song' not to dominate it, therefore the more your ear 'grows' the more fluid your playing of this blues tune or that jazz/etc tune will be.

Blues is , above all else, rooted in simplicity and emotion.
So the approach to practicing its "how to's" must follow suit.
...and like i said , dont sweat the scales ans lol modes, when jumping into the Blues, heck, LOL mebbe 10% (tops) of all the legendary Blues players even knew what "theory" or for that matter scales even where. No kiddin!
BUT
They knew, from playing and playing and playing, unconsciously exactly what the fretboard sounded like ...and from this knowledge could pull beautifully personal sounds from the guitar.

just one lil tip but i hope it helps ya out a bit..

RAWK!
Cs

Why learn a major scale when starting of whit blues ???
You never use that in traditional blues. You can (I studying masterclass course of Larry Cartlon right now.) change the minor steps in the begining of the blues scale against the major steps and the the rest of the bluesscale as normal over two octaves when playin the blues whot traditional blues seventchords.
But thats masterclass and also not so common way to play it...Okey, Jimmi Hendrix played both the blues scale and the minor scale twisted togheter over 9 chords, and in jazz you often play the blues using the dorian mode. But that´s not for a good start in blues. Tryin to all of it will only bee confusing.

Thats nothing modal about to play the ionian scale to blues seventschords. Then modal theory is not bluestheory !!! (delta & and chicago blues are played whit those chords ore even dom.9 chords.And melody and phrases made out of the blues scales.)

Dim och Whole note and prometheus are usefull scales in blues but thats higher course. So we don´t discuss that now.

I agre´that solmisation is good to know (to be able to sing the notes) but it´s not necessary and in blues you only need how to sing that five notes.....I´ll sure carlsnow is a good player and the tips are usefull but it seems to be a long and hard way to me.

And Delta blues are really built on bluesseventh´s chord and the blues scale...as well as Chicago blues.
There actually is a bluesscale that comes whit 5 modes...The second mode of the bluesscale is known as the "major"bluesscale...btw.....
The blue note are a tritonus note and in a minor pentatonic, 5 notes, you add that tritonusnote - thats called the blues note...

There is nothing wrong to have trained musclememory for the scales along whit your hearing..Then you don´t need to look at the guitarneck the whole time playin and you will play more safer too. If you learn the blues scale you will also be able hear how the big players are using it when playin and you can plank some of their phrases...

To learn the blues scale will make it much construct or planking solo´s.
You can come along way just using the bluesscales..And it´s easy to learn. You can find the blues scale and any of the mentioned under "guitarscales" on this page, allguitarchords.com. Isuggest that you don´t bother the other scale´s - just learn the ordinary blues scale first and learn to use it building phrases and solo´s...

On the blueslessonnet.com you can study different styles of blues and the styles of the big bluesmasters. I´ve done a lot of blues and if you send med an PM, kero, I can send links to more good page´s whit blues tabs and free lessons and blues theory written by all the big bluesplayers today......Most of the great artist where young when they got big bluesplayers - don´t take 40 years + to learn the basics of blues. And , in my opinion - after 40 years get it all wrong too.

A BLUE REPLIE

I NEVER said “learn a major scale “ first. I was speaking of learning whole-step intervals up the neck (in a Maj movement, to make it easy) in order to develop the ear.
As for the idea that

“

Nothing could be further from the truth.
Although I did NOT go into this(Maj Scales) they are very very welcome in Blues playing.
Its a simple truth if you think about it a second:
When you Play Amaj Blues (say 1 4 5) what is the relative Minor? … F#min …
If you play a Blues in F#Maj … Amin, again a natural Min or Natural 6, comes into play.
You cannot suggest playing one and not the other, if not simply for the fact that they share the same tonal make-up.
So this time I will say it.
Learn the major and its relitive minor + minor and its relative-major …
I'll go one further.
Most blues (as most Country, etc) follow a 1 4 5 progression of some sort.
Learn a major-scale for each step (1 4 5) then learn the relative-minor for each.
(keep in mind Lydian is a major, and so forth, just as Dorian is a Min(-7) ...learn them all)
Keep in mind that many blues are IN a minor key, and so, learning the relative Major, to each (1 4 5) step is a must as well. In fact its a “mirror” of sorts, but more on that later.


Hendrix played some Blues but was not (as incredibly, inanely brilliant as he was) a “Bluesman”, and He was the first to point that out. ( I aint trashing JH, AT ALL; he's one of my all time favorite players, just sayin...and repeating what he said many times(esp to Buddy Guy)
+
The thought of Larry C playing blues is kinda funny, he's got chops galore, and is well known in the 'Lite-Jazz' community....but the blues? ...I just can't hear it.
(If I am mistaken please post some LC Blues clips, I would love to hear hi take on the blues, seriously)
I mean I could be wrong, but when I hear the name, Larry Cartlon well, “Blues” doesn't come to mind.


I have no earthly idea what the above ^^^ statement means,
...perhaps its a translation problem, Eng-Swede-Eng...


I never mentioned “Blues Theory” and never would as it, to me is an oxymoron of the highest degree.


putting the Delta Blues and Chicago Blues together would, beyond using a Time Machine, be redundant as both grow from the same tree(Delta) …
...and again, you've misquoted my post and now added Dom9's to the equation.


No. I do discuss this now that you brought it up... I never mentioned using Whole-Tone (not “note”) scales in blues, although they could sound interesting, I suppose.

I have no clue what you mean by “Dim och” ..eh? ... Please explain.
Same with “Promethious”.


No its not, BUT, why not begin to learn that aspect of the art?


Okay now, that’s insane...
No insult intended
BUT
Why in the name of God would anyone, anytime, anywhere in ANY form of music LIMIT their playing to 5 notes!?
We have a 12-tone scale, taking over 1/2 of those notes away reduces our ability to express ourselves by, well, 7 notes.
If we took that approach we could toss out our Sus, Aug, Dim7, Min7 etc Chords as well.
I want all the notes I can have thank you.


Old Saying : “Nothing good comes easy”.


Actually ...no.
and ...No.
… And MOST Delta Blues began in open-tunings played with makeshift slides.


Some call that a “Blue Note” (its were the Jazz label Blue Note got its name) but it should in no way be confused with being indicative of either Jazz or Blues musics.
(i'd go on but I am trying to avoid a long theory post)


Right.
We Agree.
…..but
Then ya say:

SURE 'not looking” at the neck is a Plus...
BUT “Safer” … Naw, “Safe” = boring; this ability allows you more freedom.
Yes you will mess up when you a free'd up BUT you learn far more from your mistakes than you do from your triumphs (or 'correctness').


Very True.


I agree


Actually I would suggest (and teach) the Major scale 1-7
(also called Modes of Maj Scale)
ALONG-SIDE The so-called Blues-Scale
(the “blues scale = a Minor Pentatonic with a raised 4
(#4 or b5, usually written as #4 due to THIS 1 2 3 4 b5 5... looking odd(er) than 1 2 3 4 #4 5... in the pentatonic and many many other scales)

So yes I agree somewhat, But as the Pent Minor with an added #4 is a REDUCTION of Both the 1st and 6th Major scales(modes) I feel it should be taught along with them.


You can indeed find a LOT on the web today. Most of it (id say 80%) is rubbish.

You MAY find a good thing or two on the web, BUT!
> can a Tab or Video say
“Hey, your hand is a bit cramped there”...
or “Try that run again a little less staccato... *(etc on and on)

I am biased in that I learned to play from live humans for eons and now teach other live humans face to face for a living.
I would have missed a TON of what I know/play were it not for my teachers stopping me mid-scale, stopping bad habits, taking the time to nurture my musical growth at a pace dictated for my skills...and on and on..


Sure!
Some of them.
The man who taught me Slide was playing for Lonnie Brooks up in Chicago when he was in his early 20's.
Age is not a determining factor in ability.


No …
Wow! ... that would be a lifetime, heck, you can learn the basics of blues in a year or so!
And please do !
The world needs more blues! :)
BUT never think that you are finished learning at 10-20-30-40-50-60-Years...
Yet another old quote:
“The day you stop learning is the day you stop growing”.


Clearly that last insanely rude comment was aimed at me.
So I am getting this whole Blues-Thing “Wrong?”

I tell ya what …
Post a Video of You playing the blues, Ya-Know, kinda show me the ropes.
Fill me in on what I SHOULD be doing.
Lord knows I don’t want to keep on down this path of playing the Blues “all wrong”

RAWK!
Cs

If I compare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKgniw1Rmho

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMLCNwcXcvU

I found other have a blues... and other a full of it, you know which one?... and my point is, that if these two guys play whatever domseventhdimdumbluenotetheoreticalsevenths... result is same. why?

what I can say myself,as I have recently something realized. Blues scale was first I learned. Then I have heard a modes and stuff like that and I was totally lost... until... I realized what I see in this discussion also.



is this. Simple as it is, I suggest every new ecspecially self taught players to think and understand.

good discussion anyway, thanks guys.

Cheers!
-Emp

Wow, Carl that is one hell of further insight into the subtleties of the blues!
Agreed.......why would you limit yourself to 5 notes or for that matter any predefined scale. I couldn't agree more.
Thank you for that.
pxm,
I think you misread almost all of what Carl was saying in his first post. That may be a translation issue as Carl said above but even so I think your undertones of disrespect were uncool. You owe the man an apology.
I've heard Carl play the blues, hell I've sat at my computer in live online video chats with him and watched him play to the point of bringing tears to my eyes. He is beyond any doubt in my mind capable at any given moment to sit in with the best players in the biz today.
His contributions to this forum have challenged and benefited (to greater and lesser degrees) all who read his posts.
The first thing I did when I read your post was to try and look at your video posts on youtube but they were listed as "private" so unfortunately I wasn't able to see what you have to offer. I did however see that other members were enthusiastic about your vids and offered constructive ideas and that is the general tone of this forum. Perhaps while learning the blues you should take the time to learn some manners too.
Phip

Also Johan, you said that Delta blues is built upon bluesseventh chord. I don't want to say, is it true or not. But when we are talking about blues, answer how it is "built" might be found elsewhere than pure theory.

If you compare this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H0r4L3VM8g

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRaQBGC5Kw0

is same thing in a different format. Other may have more "theoretical knowledge" and even a skill... can you compare it to something you are born to? or even... can we say that they born to do that wrong? Its not good even as a joke.

because, you just hear the difference. That's called the soul. Not any scale, dom7, ... or anything.

and the blue note... tritonus or maybe.... diabolus musica.. "worried note" whatever you want to call it...well... it FEEL blue. how can you say its a "blues note".

what comes to major scale and a blues...

I have one question in mind. what is difference between these?

C, Eb, F, F#, G, B, C

C, Eb, F, F#, G, A, C

and what these "scales" are called?

maybe someone can answer.

-Emp

Why thank you Suh! :)

as to the question above :



First off the 2nd C is redundant TO the scale, as it is the '1'.
Tossing that 'C' aside we have what Looks Like a Minor-Pentatonic...BUT...
It is not.

1st The 4th is followed by a raised-4th (#4 or b5), in this case F# in the key of C.
This is known as the 'Blue Note' by many, and when added to Minor Pentatonic causes the six-note "blues-scale"
BUT
Both the Minor Pentatonic and the 'blues scale'(Min-Pent w/ #4/b5) carry(USE) a b7th ...the notes above indicate a few common shifts in this scale.
Rather than a "blues"-scale" Or Minor-Pent a Major has been introduced in both cases.
In the first case :
C, Eb, F, F#, G, B, C
The B Becomes a Maj 7, causing a major undertone to the tonic-minor
with:
C, Eb, F, F#, G, A, C
The same idea is being used, the normally placed b7th has been "lowered" to a Maj 6

The 6 and 7 "bookend" the commonly played b7, thus giving the scale-run a different slant than usually heard.

This is a quite common occurrence when moving from scale to scale.
Also , a good ear exercise = playing the Pentatonic
(C, Eb, F, G, Bb)
The "blues"
(C, Eb, F, F#, G, Bb) F# = b5/#4
Then add the raised 7 (Maj 7 = B)
Then add the lowered b7 (written as 6 or at times bb7)

Play these back to back to back noticing the change in tonality brought about by raising or lowering a b7 to a Maj 7 or 6, withing what is usually(due to b3 - b7) a minor scale.

Its a fun exercise and very enlightening, harmonically as both "twists" easily lead to another scale entirely OR a move back INTO a minor.

Fun Fun Fun

RAWK!
Cs

If I may throw my two cents in, Screw the scales play the chords.

That's not to say don't learn scales; you gotta!! I'm just saying when your playing don't be thinking about boxes, scales,and blues notes and whatever. just play the chords.

I believe, I got that tip from BB King (at lest I think it was him); however, I can't find the video (I looked). but, here is a video and if you listen; he is talking about the chords not so much scales and what not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnTyyX-VJGM

not that what is being said above is wrong or bad advice in anyway. I read a good bit of it; I'm just purposing other way to look at.

however I will say, don't really look into the 2 and 9 tones too deep. Not saying don't play them, if it sounds right it's right. but the theory on the 2 and 9 tones can get funny (particularly in the altered way) ergo your mind may get into a theory trap and just confuse the hell out you. This advice is of course dependent upon the type of blues your playing. Remember not all blues is the same, which is why I get annoyed when Robert Johnson is thrown in with the delta guys cuz half his stuff is not delta, hell is famous song is a barrelhouse tune. Don't even get me started on the idiots who talk about is "there red hot" and delta.

I haven't been on here in a while and now there's so much to read!

...'Can i get an Amen?!'
AMEN!

In other words: Hammer meet Nail - Nail meet Hammer !

I suggested this on/in a 'practicing technique' post a bit back.

I will (they are chords) once again add Triads to that suggestion.

It seems crazy to me that there is SO MUCH focus on Scales/Modes & "lead" guitar these days, RA, as i am certain you have also noticed.

From here on AGC to my newer and/or younger students, I feel an acute lack of, and want of, Chordal knowledge. As you sorta alluded to: Chords are Scales are Scales are Chords (AKA: "Chordscale").

Chords(+Triads) will do more to inform a student of the musical mechanics of the guitar in one Month than a year of endless scale-noodling, I've seen and HEARD this truth too many times over the years for it not to be gospel.

This also holds true for the art of the STRUM, and general non-scale oriented right-hand technique and practice.

And both are so VERY VERY key to playing the Blues (or anything else for that matter) that their absents baffles me. Actually it worries me.

Chords
Triads
More Chords!(and a good right hand)
rinse and repeat...

RAWK!
Cs

Been away for awhile and hadn't had time to re-visit this post. Lots of great stuff here! I didnt get a chance to look at everything but lots of good stuff. Anyhow, another thing I experienced inbetween posts was actually FEELING blue and then sitting down with my acoustic and playing some blues. I'll tell ya, it makes a difference! In addition to all the technical, I beliewve it is just as important to be able to express yourself with your instrument. This applies to all music really but I find myself not really able to express myself as well when I'm just trying to play the blues. I really need to feel it!

Learn the basic I, IV, V chord progression.This progression are the basis of most popular blues.Learn to hear and feel the blues.Learn how to play the basic licks and riffs.