Yeah; I can Dig it, GS! :)
(….and ya knew this was coming lol..)
But! to further the discussion (…and
hopefully NOT to derail anyone’s studies) :
As I see/
hear things: you are both right
and "wrong"
and right.
^ Makes no sense does it?
It
does, actually!
Though, in a
seemingly strange way, I admit!
(lol)
*(main point for me and I took the liberty to put it in bold)
Guitarslinger124 says:
I figure that you are right (In method - you're the pro-teacher), haha, * but I don't think it matters if it is easier for "us" but rather for whoever is listening.
*This is where I disagree.
B U T (stranger still) …
for the same reasons you stated!
Unless by “listening”, you mean(t)
reading the post…lol!
If so, well, this will suffice as a nice discussion on western, modal, chord/scale theory.
(Over The Intercom we hear) : “Follow the arrows to the room labeled: “Western Modal, Chord/scale Theory 101” all the crazy folk are in
THERE!”)
-
For me the statement; "I don't think it matters if it is easier for "us" but rather for whoever is listening."
…
While seemingly a 'nit-picky'-disagreement, harbors a larger truth: Any/All chord-scale movements based on a key-tone/scale is dependent ON that Key(chord/scale) for **all 'tempered-movement' within it. (**as with everything , exceptions exist).
To that end, I’ll add my grumpy old guitar teachers “take” on this (finally!) wonderfully substantive ‘theory and practice’ post.
-
The theory we are both expounding upon is correct, and both (and more) ways of approaching it are correct. This is where the teaching/learning part pushes me towards (since this is basically a beginners forum) the method I outlined.
…Don’t get me wrong, I do teach F-Mix as YOU outlined … but
only after a good, basic but
thorough understanding of ChordScale has been reached by a student in the “main” (I know, I know, lol) four or five ‘modes’ (Major(Ionian) – Melodic(Maj) – Melodic-Min – Harmonic-Min, Pentatonic).
The reason is simple.
Even my “beginner-intermediate” level students; the Cats who know the whole fretboard fairly well, run scales cleanly and with confidence…and, of course know how to play , if not build complex chords. Those folks, as good as they are getting, look like a deer in headlights when I drop the bomb we’re discussing on them. And these are the ones who haven’t been screwed-up via bad Internet “theory pages” and such.
The reason is simple and very ‘human’
We, as humans, do not want to look/think forwards
while thinking/looking backwards, as happens when I say … “We are(
Modally) in ‘A’, please play the relative minor”
What happens first? … they begin in A and look UP the Plank “1, 2, 3, etc” and find that ‘relative’ either on the 6th string – 14th Fret –OR- the 5th string – 9th Fret; Its just human nature.
OF COURSE I show (
and have shown) them that the Relative-Minor is a minor-Third
behind the Major, but that does little to help this mental hurdle.
This is why I teach “from the nut” when dealing with Modes; Always beginning in a low position (talking straight 1234567 runs) and moving up gives the student with the acoustic guitar that stops at fret 14 or so the field of vision needed to run the basic 1 – 7 in the basic, or first learned, four (or so) modes. (*see my lesson ‘scaling up’ for example).
Once the ‘Construct” has been established (the patterned modal chord-scale progression 1-7, from the nut), I then phase in the “A – (Aeolian) = Gb” stuff.
They love it, and a new plateau is reached
THEN, since I find it more than silly to play up then back when trying to teach the various chord-scales like A (as 1) to E (as 5, Mix) then back to open or Gb (as 6) and such …
I have them start each mode at the lowest possible degree , barring and ‘open’ stuff (for now) like so:
F (Ionian) = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 … easy
A (Ionian) = a change in thinking, as the low-voice is the Minor-Third/Natural-Minor or Aeolian on the second fret, causing the Ionian “cycle” to begin on the SIX rather than the ONE: 6,7,1,2,3,4,5)
Teaching ‘A’ this way (after F) starts to move the brain towards thinking of chord-scale movements as being like a ‘fretboard wheel’ (what goes around comes BACK around) thus enabling the student to easily figure that
“Starting ‘C’ major on the first fret (Lydian form played from the F) makes sense!”
Once those hurdles are crossed its easier to see why , when I say play F-Lydian, I could just as well mean C-Lydian(1st fret) depending on the key we are in.
So when you say: “
I don't think it matters if it is easier for "us" but rather for whoever is listening.”
I disagree on two fronts
1- Its easier on the student, therefore the student progresses more quickly and with a deeper understanding
2- BECAUSE it’s easier for the student to understand, it’s MUCH easier for me to listen, and help them move deeper into their studies.
(2.5 = I haven't had a good non-student Theory talk inna while lol !)
But then that’s the thing with theory:
there is
‘Practical Theory’ and
‘Book Theory’
and while the two often meet, no amount of reading theory, will make up for a lack of practical theory.
I know this due to the fact, lol, that I’ve had to
un-teach so much ‘bad-theory’(www, usually) In order to help a new student progress or ‘get out of a rut’ or simply put the pieces together. THIS is especially true of some of the Cats I get who have taught themselves for a few years and developed bad habits and such…
In the end I teach very much as you wrote, GS, but I have, over the years, found it immensely helpful to use the approach I outlined.
Easier to teach, learn, and hear.
:)
RAWK!
Cs
Global Disclaimer :
Carl Snow is an old, jaded & slightly bitter old man who cannot be held accountable for
anything, much less his opinionatedly opinionated opinions or those of his imaginary friends. We sincerely apologize if this Carl Snow and/or its behavior have infected you or others with its ugly brain and its juices.
